Q for web designers or about them [Archive]

megfenn

25-04-2006, 11:42 AM

I don't usually charge if it's just a quick link change or addition. If they send me a load of updates and there are link changes within the updates, then I'll charge them for the whole lot. I'm usually quite generous when it comes to text and link updates. Some web designers or web companies charge a minimum amount no matter how long it actually takes or they will charge a monthly or annual maintenance fee. I find that my clients don't really want to be tied into any type of formal contract that stipulates the amount of changes per month for a specified fee.

I suppose there are positives to doing it that way, but the type of client I attract usaully wants more freedom and flexibility. There can be pitfalls with this as well (mainly when it comes to payment!). However, I've found if I give the client benefit of the doubt and throw in some freebies, then they are happy and alway come back to me. I think I've gone off subject now - basically, if it takes less than 10 mins to update text or links, then I do it for free. Does that answer the question?

Lemon

25-04-2006, 12:52 PM

Although I had a web designer build my site I have an admin centre where I add my own text and stuff. So I put my own links on and they are therefore free !!

Daffs

25-04-2006, 12:59 PM

I should have said that currently I offer free content updates ie text changing and adding links, etc within the packages I offer and if a client send me a new link to add, I will usually make sure it is done within 48 hours, no matter how many or how often the send them. I have seen that some people only do updates if included in a package every few months. I just wondered what the norm is. I don't have many that have gone over a year and their initial 'package' term yet so am starting to think about what to charge for maintenance. I did sort out an annual maintenance agreement with one client for a set amount instead of an hourly rate but I dn't think I wll do that again. I wondered if people charge and how long the client has to wait, that sort of thing, so yes, answered it thanks Meg! ""cutey""b

obscure

25-04-2006, 05:06 PM

Hi Alison

I had quite a few people taking advantage of me by sending over one word amendments for their website almost daily for some time and expecting them to be actioned immediately.

For me the small updates are the most time consuming as you have to read and reply to their email and action the change logging in etc. I do (non urgent) updates fortnightly now on Mondays so I just blitz all the faffy little things.

I've also started charging my corporate clients a minimum fee per update - so I recommend to them that they gather a few amendments unless the thing is urgent to keep the costs down. I've been going 4 years and have over 100 maintained clients so it would be madness if they all send me umpteen changes to make each week - I'd never get any other work done!

I've kinda decided that as my whole life is dedicated to what I do (or so it feels sometimes!) and I've got a lot of experience behind me (2 years working at a web design co before Glassraven, and 4+ years running Glassraven) I can justify charging my clients for my services - they have the full information upfront before they sign any contracts with me so they know what they'll be paying and can make a decision based upon that. I know my prices are still cheaper than many companies with my experience so I dont feel I am ripping anyone off by doing this.

Its hard with existing customers - when i was starting out I tended to do stuff at all hours and almost immediately, replying to emails dead quickly - this is just not possible now and some people do expect me to still act as I did 3 years ago. A trap not to fall into...

HTH a bit...
Sadie

Ravenfire

25-04-2006, 05:46 PM

See Alison I told you you were too kind..lol. You should be charging all your Clients for their updates! With the amount you have at the moment you could make a fortune. Especially that Strictly Admin owner shes a right pest!

naturalnursery

25-04-2006, 07:16 PM

Sadie does our site (and a fab job too) but now that it is set up I will do minor amendments and such myself. If I was asking for links or text to be updated (assuming the original site wording had been settled) I would expect to pay for it.

I imagine that I would save up a whole load and get them done at once and then pay a single fee - not sure if I would expect it to be a set fee or a per hour fee.

I think (personally) that I would rather do it this way than pay a monthly/yearly fee to include changes - I think that it is open to abuse (not quite the right word but ykwim) - some clients will send over lots of little changes and the fees charged to all clients would have to cover this, even if a particcular client only sends them over occassionally.

Hope this makes sense - only had 2 hours sleep last night............

Axx

littlesheep

25-04-2006, 08:12 PM

I think that you should charge per update to stop people sending over one link at a time.

HTH

Love Elaine

Daffs

25-04-2006, 08:32 PM

Okay, it seems my clients are indeed getting a good deal and that I am happy about. I won't charge extra for adding links as I am too soft. My services come packaged so that it is easy for small businesses to know where they stand through the year with their website in that they won't have to pay any extra - there are enough other things to have to cope with and shell out for.

I was wondering more about the time they have to wait for things to be done and whether within 48 hours was reasonable enough.

Thanks for replying, and that Strictly Admin woman is a right drain on my resource pool. She always wants things doing all the time and quite honestly I will quit my job is she keeps on at me. Always nagging, nag, nag, nag, nag, nag... Oh for the Seychelles.. :fryingpan: :happy72:

megfenn

26-04-2006, 09:16 AM

I think within 48 hours is very efficient. I've had some of my clients say that their previous web company would take weeks to make a small change. I try to make updates (links and small text changes) within 48 hours as well. I think our clients get a great deal with this.

Thanks for your input Sadie. It's very interesting to get the low-down from a more experienced (non-corporate) web designer. I totally see your point and if I had 100+ clients I would need to draw up proper contracts etc and T & C. I currently include a brief T & C section in my quotes when I ask for the deposit. At the mo my client base is growing and the work keeps coming but I'm no where near 100+ clients. Well done Sadie :happy72:

megfenn

26-04-2006, 09:35 AM

Oh yea, forgot to say. If any of my clients start taking the p**s, like sending small updates every day and expecting them to be done asap, then I would charge them for it. They would soon learn not to take advatage. There's no way that can be good for anyone.

Daffs

26-04-2006, 10:02 AM

I see what you are saying Meg. However, I don't want to be whined about that I take too long to do things and this suits me so I shall carry on doing it. I think if I am kind to people, they will not want to take the biscuit. Certainly, nobody has thus far. I am just happy that everyone has been very pleased with the service I give and that makes my little old heart swell and it's fit to burst! :party35: Any luck with your problem yet? I hope it's sorted! :happy72:

megfenn

26-04-2006, 10:17 AM

Not yet but working on it! I get madder every day.

feistygal

26-04-2006, 12:46 PM

With my previous website I had to do my own links pages/updates etc and for some reason, despite not being a pc/website numpty I could never get it quite right and made a right mess of it. I even killed the site completely a few times! But, I know that was not all my fault as my brother told me! (He's a bit of a big wig in the IT world - done several v famous web sites in the past) When I was describing the back end + dreamweaver of the site with him over the phone he was as confused as me.

As a client I wouldn't mind paying for updates/links as long as the charge was reasonable and the work was done quickly. In fact I don't mind paying for anything as long as it gets done and done properly :happy72:

The thing is a links page is so important to good search engine rankings, that it needs to be done well.

Claire

MrsJohno

26-04-2006, 10:31 PM

Daffs

27-04-2006, 09:08 AM

hmm...that's something I hadn't considered...

I'm just starting out working from home doing webdesign and logos..and I hadnt condsidered updates when I was working out my pricing policy....

this thread has been thoguht provoking ...Thanks

Ooh fab! Welcome to Mumszone! There are so many things I wished I had thought of before I started up but I suppose we all learn as we go along. I hope it goes well for you and I'm always happy to have a chat to a fellow web designer about business! Pricing has always been a nightmare for me. I don't want to charge too much but then I do have to make a living and wish I didn't! :happy72: Good luck with it!

MrsJohno

27-04-2006, 10:18 AM

Thanks...

may take you up on that chat about business stuff sometime!

LittleM

27-04-2006, 10:22 AM

We host and maintain our site ourselves, so Niccy usually makes all the alterations, although I have taken the link page under my wing, because it's the only thing I can do without faffing it up.
It takes a while though as I have no access to any of the website files.
I really need to do an update, will add that to my to do list.

Sometimes I think it would be easier to have someone else do it all because it can be so time consuming. I think I would be willing to pay a nominal fee for that!

Arianna

27-04-2006, 04:50 PM

We have just changed our policy where depending on what package has been purchased depends on the number of free hours they get a month for changes etc. We keep a spreadsheet for each client and send it to them. Once the free minutes are used up, we will then quote them for each individual job. If it's just an odd link or whatever that takes me 5 mins to do, I don't bother counting it against their free minutes - but if it's a lot of things I do count it.

HTH!

Arianna

Daffs

27-04-2006, 06:57 PM

megfenn

27-04-2006, 07:14 PM

Daffs

27-04-2006, 07:21 PM

Yeah, my thoughts too. Do you have someone to do the spreadsheets for you? I just don't have time (or the will yet) to do all that paperwork. Are the clients happy to get the spreadsheet, do they find it helpful?

Not a fan of paperwork? Nah me either! 20061008 I must admit I would be a shambles without Arianna and her expert tips and strategies. I hate paperwork and te admin side of business. Are you more of a doer than a planner, like me?

Arianna

27-04-2006, 07:38 PM

I do the spreadsheet when the client asks for the job and I then send it to them at the end of the month via email to show them what has been done etc. If they run out of minutes before the end of the month I send it to them then.

My client's have found it extremely helpful as they get an idea of how long things take and how often they are asking for things to be done. Plus they felt they were taking advantage. It's been a great thing to have implemented on both sides. :-)

Arianna

27-04-2006, 07:38 PM

Aww thanks hun - well I think I'd have gone crazy a few times over if I hadn't had you to talk to and help me out. :-)

I think the watching the minutes thing is ingrained in me due to how I charge for the bookkeeping services. I note the time down in my head and then when I'm finished look at the clock on my laptop again and count it all up.

Arianna

megfenn

27-04-2006, 08:19 PM

Yes, I am a doer!!:woot:

Ravenfire

27-04-2006, 09:55 PM

I use Time Stamp, its great for working out exactly how long you spend on each project.

Arianna

27-04-2006, 10:28 PM

I use Time Stamp, its great for working out exactly how long you spend on each project.

Where can I find out more about Time Stamp hun? I know QB has a time thing in it but it's a bit difficult to use it on my quickbooks when I'm working on someone else's books.

Arianna

obscure

28-04-2006, 01:32 PM

I see what you are saying Meg. However, I don't want to be whined about that I take too long to do things and this suits me so I shall carry on doing it. I think if I am kind to people, they will not want to take the biscuit.

Yeah you are right there Alison. My pricing structure is radically different for my wahm clients than my corporate clients but I treat them the same - I need to have time to work! I cannot have each and every day taken up with updates and things - far easier on the most valuable resource I have (my time!) if I do them in batches.

By giving people the option to request an urgent update it means that they have to think about if its really urgent or is ok to wait 2 weeks (and 2 weeks is the maximum time as if they email me on the sunday before my fortnightly update day its done within 24 hours LOL). I dont find that 2 weeks is an extensive amount of time to wait for adding a link or something like that. If it was something urgent to get done fast like information on an event happening soon or similar I will do it as soon as poss (often within the hour!).

:) Sadie

obscure

28-04-2006, 01:37 PM

Thanks for your input Sadie. It's very interesting to get the low-down from a more experienced (non-corporate) web designer. I totally see your point and if I had 100+ clients I would need to draw up proper contracts etc and T & C. I currently include a brief T & C section in my quotes when I ask for the deposit. At the mo my client base is growing and the work keeps coming but I'm no where near 100+ clients. Well done Sadie :happy72:

Thanks Meg,

Its been a long time in coming (4years so far in biz) - I am looking at employment law etc at the moment ready for September when Aiden goes to school as its got to the stage where I can keep on going almost on the work I have from current clients without new ones coming in.

I did however wrongly state that I had 100+ maintained clients - whereas I've only got 70 maintained website clients and then another 50-60 who I do graphics work etc for. Didnt want to mislead anyone!!!!

I am trying to ensure that I dont take on too much at the moment as I got myself in a pickle last year when both kids were ill, followed by me being ill and I got really behind with my work. At times like that I wish that I was more like I was when starting up with time to play with!!!! Working to a strict diary system recently has helped somewhat with allowing me breathing space - if the children are ill then I make up the time at the weekend as I try and leave them free of work so we can have family time these days.

Waffle over!
:) Sadie

obscure

28-04-2006, 01:39 PM

hmm...that's something I hadn't considered...

I'm just starting out working from home doing webdesign and logos..and I hadnt condsidered updates when I was working out my pricing policy....

this thread has been thoguht provoking ...Thanks

Hi MrsJohno

Just wanted to say welcome to the forum - I dont often get forum time these days but am around occasionally :)

I also do webdesign and graphics so any questions you may have give me a shout :)

Pricing is one of the hardest things I've found - well that and invoicing! I hate the whole money side of things, my enjoyment lies in the designing! Getting good systems in place at the start can be a real boon to having a successful business :)

All the best...
:) Sadie

obscure

28-04-2006, 01:41 PM

How do you have patience to count the minutes though?
ROFL = my thought exactly! I think I'd end up wasting more time counting and logging each little thing I did than I would by just doing the updates and not charging for it!

I trialled traxtime in the past (a project time tracking tool) but it was a bit of a faff so I gave up on it!

I now log in my diary what I am doing and when and that gives me a good idea of what time I am spending on what and helps me with my charging structures etc.

:) Sadie

obscure

28-04-2006, 01:42 PM

Not a fan of paperwork? Nah me either! 20061008 I must admit I would be a shambles without Arianna and her expert tips and strategies. I hate paperwork and te admin side of business. Are you more of a doer than a planner, like me?

I reckon its a design persons prerogative (um spelling??).

I absolutely love the design side of things - but when it comes to the actual 'business' side of it (ie invoicing people!) I hate it!

I love what I do and always feel bad about invoicing people - though this is more the case with wahm. I dont feel the same with most of my 'corporates'.

:)Sadie

megfenn

28-04-2006, 03:41 PM

Am having a bad day, but am cheered up by your comments, Sadie, about the design side of things. i'm the same as you. My background is creative/art & design. I got my Masters in Design Studies and I loved doing the course work. The business side of things sometimes really gets to me. Especially when I have to chase clients up for payment or invoice really great clients who I wish I could do their stuff for free.

By the way, how do you do that thing where you show someones comments above yours and that is what you are responding to on the forum. I'm a :help2: dummy sometimes.

Daffs

28-04-2006, 04:23 PM

By the way, how do you do that thing where you show someones comments above yours and that is what you are responding to on the forum. I'm a :help2: dummy sometimes.

Like this? Click on the Quote button and delete what you don't want to include if it's a big post. Sorry you're having a crappy day! I've more or less taken the day off today with one thing and another but will make up for it this weekend I'm sure. Do you get days where you wonder whether the slog is worth it?

Arianna

28-04-2006, 05:03 PM

Hi Sadie,

I do a general listing but I don't put it in until I've actually done the work. All my client's really appreciate it and I don't do all the updates at once etc.

It's probably because I have do to the same thing with regards to the bookkeeping work. I tend to only get a ton of updates to do etc at the end of the month, but I just space them out and get them done. I've got a giant white board I write everything on and I cross it all off as I do it so I don't loose track of what I have to do.

I've always been like this though - probably down to me being an obsessive perfectionist and ocd.

I love doing the business side of things - but then I'm totally crazy and enjoy bookkeeping. LOL

Arianna

megfenn

28-04-2006, 06:48 PM

Do you get days where you wonder whether the slog is worth it?

Not so much wonder whether it's worth the slog, 'cause in the end I think it is. I love what I do and I'm really proud of the fact that after I was made redundant from my job as senior internet designer (when I was 5 mos preg), I kept on going and set up White Ochre. It's been great but certainly had ups and downs.

I suppose it's just alot when you do everything on your own. Sometimes if feels like I bite off more than I can chew. Also sometimes is a downer when the type of work on offer isn't the ideal project. I just take it as it comes. I'm sure you know what I mean!

Did I do the quote thingy right??

megfenn

28-04-2006, 07:00 PM

Sorry you're having a crappy day! I've more or less taken the day off today with one thing and another but will make up for it this weekend I'm sure.

Hope you find some relax time this weekend as well and not spend all of it working. :happy72: At least Monday is a Bank Holiday (although I often work on weekends and bank holidays as well). But not this Monday, I'm taking the day off, if I can, 'cause dh has been away in China on business for 2 weeks and gets back tomorrow!!

MrsJohno

28-04-2006, 07:53 PM

Thanks Sadie...

I want to get my pricing right from the start....business manager said to me charge as much as you think someone is willing to pay...no matter what the mark up is...but it makes me feel a bit necky... for example...my most recent project cost me £4 for the domain..with a donated hosting package....but by my pricing I would be charging over £600...and other bigger companies quote double that...

megfenn

28-04-2006, 08:06 PM

Hi Mrs Johno,

welcome to the crazy world of work from home web designers. Hope it's going well so far. One other comment about pricing would be to look at what corporate web companies are charging and also their web packages and prices. You probably already know this, :blusingan but it's something that I did when I was starting out on my own. I know the company I used to work for charged loads more than I do. I took a few clients with me when I left :cheesy:

Another thing to think about is your call out fees and face-to-face meetings. When I started out, I didn't factor that in at all and realised that I needed to come up with some charges so I wasn't wasting my time on meetings with clients who weren't committed.

MrsJohno

02-05-2006, 08:14 AM

Thanks. I hadn't thought about charging for the initial meeting.

megfenn

02-05-2006, 02:23 PM

If the project goes ahead, I don't charge for the initial meeting. If after the initial meeting they don't contact me again or say they are going with someone else, I will bill them for a consultation fee. This has only happened once and it was no problem. Usually if they want a meeting, then that means they are committed to you. If they want to meet up lots to discuss their website/project as it goes, then I charge them for my time. Sorry I wasn't clear before. It's just that some people will try and get as much as possible from you for free. HTH

obscure

05-05-2006, 10:11 AM

Yeah I'm like you on that Meg

I offer an hours free consultation before taking on projects for people who want it - they travel to me if they live a distance away or I will go to them if they are in Coventry (else I'd spend a packet on travelling around the country!).

I do end up talking through projects for half an hour to an hour on the phone for people who are not local so it all balances out really.

I havent had to apply a charge for the meetings yet as like Meg I've found if they want the meeting then they are generally wanting to go ahead with my design work.

:) Sadie