Grand National Cruelty!

[Chell]

'Every year around 400 horses are raced to death in Britain.

The Grand National (Thursday 3rd - Saturday 5th) brings shame on Britain as a nation of 'animal lovers' - between 1997 & 2006, the three day meet at Aintree claimed the lives of 30 horses'

That is an average of just over 3 hours per Grand National event. :ac39:

See here (http://www.veggies.org.uk/event.php?ref=58)!

[Bunny]

I have to say I do not watch the grand national or any other horse racing, I dislike the way they push the horses to the limit and you see them start to suffer

[Whassat]

but i don't think they will ever stop horse racing will they? what about dog racing or any other animal sport.
its going to happen. id put money on there being more animals neglected and poorly treated other than racing.
i shall still be watching the grand national :unsure:

[Ravenfire]

but i don't think they will ever stop horse racing will they? what about dog racing or any other animal sport.
its going to happen. id put money on there being more animals neglected and poorly treated other than racing.
i shall still be watching the grand national :unsure:

I agree.

I don't like to think of any animal being neglected and poorly treated.

[angel1980]

I hate the Grand National and would not bet on it. It's worse (IMO) to other horse racing, with the horrible jump where it's lower the other side. (is it the chair?) Very cruel.

With regard to greyhound racing, I hate it (even more so if I'm honest) and it should be banned. I'm part of Greyhound in Need who aim to help rescue and rehome greyhounds. I could talk to hours about the problems with greyhound racing so had better not start!! :cheesy:

Here's a couple of links for anyone who is interested:

http://www.greyhoundpetition.org/regulation.pdf

http://www.greyhoundsinneed.co.uk/

http://www.greyhoundaction.co.uk/ just to warn you this site is quite graphic but has lots of good factsheets and articles

[angel1980]

but i don't think they will ever stop horse racing will they? what about dog racing or any other animal sport.
its going to happen. id put money on there being more animals neglected and poorly treated other than racing.
i shall still be watching the grand national :unsure:

Ah but if everyone boycotted horse and dog races and did not fund the industries, they would not continue.

[Emsickle]

I agree, I hate the Grand National and would not bet on it. It's worse (IMO) to other horse racing, with the horrible jump where it's lower the other side. (is it the chair?) Very cruel.

With regard to greyhound racing, I hate it (even more so if I'm honest) and it should be banned. I'm part of Greyhound in Need who aim to help rescue and rehome greyhounds. I could talk to hours about the problems with greyhound racing so had better not start!! :cheesy:

Here's a couple of links for anyone who is interested:

http://www.greyhoundpetition.org/regulation.pdf

http://www.greyhoundsinneed.co.uk/

http://www.greyhoundaction.co.uk/ just to warn you this site is quite graphic but has lots of good factsheets and articles

I think greyhound racing is worse where so many of them are put to sleep at the end of their careers. Horse racing, they are retired.

Beechers Brook used to be very dangerous but has been amended many times over the past years to make it less so. You have a couple of races throughout the year that go over the National fences - a lot of the problem was with the number of horses that were running in the race, which have now also been reduced greatly.

I'll be watching and I'm a horse lover and have owned and hunter trialled horses myself.

[angel1980]

There's no doubt about it that the course is very dangerous, the jumps are way too high. The one with the drop the other side - is it still there then? Even if it has been reduced it's still incredibly dangerous for the horses, they can't forsee the other side being lower can they?

[Whassat]

Ah but if everyone boycotted horse and dog races and did not fund the industries, they would not continue.

but thats not going to happen is it? really? in an ideal world yes.
then in an ideal world they wouldn't sell cigarettes cos of the damage it does, we know its bad but we still enjoy it/do it

and if it was banned it would still happen 'on the side' and would probably cause more deaths/accidents/traumas to the animals cos there won't be any safety involved. iykwim
i can see both sides :yes:

[Emsickle]

but thats not going to happen is it? really? in an ideal world yes.
then in an ideal world they wouldn't sell cigarettes cos of the damage it does, we know its bad but we still enjoy it/do it

and if it was banned it would still happen 'on the side' and would probably cause more deaths/accidents/traumas to the animals cos there won't be any safety involved. iykwim
i can see both sides :yes:

:iagree:

[Chell]

id put money on there being more animals neglected and poorly treated other than racing.


So because animals are treated badly in other ways then it is ok to continue this cruelty, is that what you are saying?

[Ravenfire]

I certainly didn't read Whassats post like that. I didn't see her condoning cruelty anywhere!

[Emsickle]

Nor me - Whassat did state that she could see both sides of it too - I don't think there is a single member here that condones cruelty to animals, humans or otherwise

[smirnoff]

FWIW knowing Andrea there is no chance in hell that she would condone any form of cruelty..

Having worked in a bookies for a few years and having met a couple of trainers i know that animal cruelty may go on, but most of the animals are treated so amazingly well..
its the same as everything - a few rotten apples spoil it for everyone else..
and no - that doesnt make it right, but i would rather that it was governed and watched over being in the media spotlight rather than happening without the scrutiny that happens now.. itms

[Katiequiggle]

Those horses who run the grand national are treated like kings. They have the best food, hot jaccuzi baths, massage, music playing in their stables, you name it they get it.

[bikemad]

I hate horse racing with a passion but esp so the Grand National-they horses are pushed n pushed n it is cruelty to animals n should be boycotted and banned.

[Whassat]

So because animals are treated badly in other ways then it is ok to continue this cruelty, is that what you are saying?

:rolleyes: of course i don't.
they aren't put there in the unknown iywim. they train, they practice etc, thats what they do.
i can see where this is going. i know the horse didn;t say. i want to run a race, id rather stay in this field here eating grass.
but all im saying is its going to happen, it is happening and i don't think anything will stop it happening

what about fox hunting. didn;t they ban that...and doesnt that still happen?

what about. dog fighting?

what about...well lots of things really.

[Chell]

They are put into the unknown though, made to jump fences/hedges that are lower on the other side. :unsure:

How many horses race each year? For three to die I am sure that is a really high percentage.

[scaramatic]

everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I my opinion is i like horse racing, i love the grand national... thanks Chell for your opinion but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Whassat is right, its still gonna happen, should we ban fishing too while we're at it...

[Katiequiggle]

I also hate cruelty to animals and wouldn't condone it at all, I'm an animal lover having pets ourselves, but horses run, its what they love doing, if they were being forced into it and hated it, wouldn't they all run away once they had fallen and shaken off the person making them do it. Most of them finish the race, rider or no rider. I must admit that I would be too chicken to ride one knowing I could be kicked in the head by the ones behind if I fell off.

[Whassat]

go and write to the pm. stand there with your flag, join greenpeace if it makes you feel better.
i've forgotton what else i was going to say lol
just don't watch it, or support it by gambling on it etc.
but yeah, as Sarah says, everyone i entitled to their opinion and as already stated there are mixed views on grand national and horse racing and i respect everyones opinon.
each to thier own. :happy72:
and im only saying my opinion. i am not saying its the right opnion but its mine and this is in the debate section. If it was in gossip i would have just ignored the thread.

[Netty]

This is the first year I have watched the National for years ... seeing horses being injuried/killed put me off.

I wouldn't say all racing is cruel, but the National must be the hardest race, I know the course has been amended over the years but many of the jumps still seem too high/wide.

Just heard that one of the jockeys has been taken to hospital with a back injury and one horse also had a fatal injury.

[*debbie*]

i hate all horse racing or similar animal sports

[Ravenfire]

Just out of interest, those that want horse racing banning - are you all vegetarians (not aimed at Chell who I know is). Do you know how the animals you are eating were looked after and reared? I bet half of them didn't have half a good a life as these race horses do.

The horses that take part in these races are, from young horses, trained to do this very job. They are very well looked after, fed and they do enjoy racing. I know that the organisers do get input from the RSPCA with regard to the jumps and course and there are always going to be those that are for and those against.

[funkyfish]

Just out of interest, those that want horse racing banning - are you all vegetarians (not aimed at Chell who I know is). Do you know how the animals you are eating were looked after and reared? I bet half of them didn't have half a good a life as these race horses do.

The horses that take part in these races are, from young horses, trained to do this very job. They are very well looked after, fed and they do enjoy racing. I know that the organisers do get input from the RSPCA with regard to the jumps and course and there are always going to be those that are for and those against.

Absolutely right!

The horses do enjoy racing. I used to work on a riding school and we had some retired race horses and the spirit they had..wow!

If anyone is worried about the whip hurting the horse, its the noise that the whip makes that keeps the horse focused. I remember being upset as a child as I grew up round the horses worring that they were being mistreated.

The race horses that are good enough to compete in the nationals are pampered.

I agree about the veggie comments too! I watched that tv show eat kill it, cook it, eat it and it opened my eyes to the veal industry and about anyone who drinks milk is responsible for the by product.

[angel1980]

Just out of interest, those that want horse racing banning - are you all vegetarians


Yep :happy72: lol

[Headbanging Vonnie]

I just wanted to add to the greyhound racing issue. I believe the cruelty is how they treat the animals when they can no longer race and there are lots of greyhound retirement kennels everywhere which hopefully puts a stop to this as much as possible. With regard to the races, the dogs actually love chasing the hares, I know because I own a greyound and have seen her chase birds in the garden!:cheesy:

[angel1980]

I just wanted to add to the greyhound racing issue. I believe the cruelty is how they treat the animals when they can no longer race and there are lots of greyhound retirement kennels everywhere which hopefully puts a stop to this as much as possible. With regard to the races, the dogs actually love chasing the hares, I know because I own a greyound and have seen her chase birds in the garden!:cheesy:

It's not just when they can no longer race, it's only the 'lucky' ones who make it to the tracks - some are not fast enough, weak, lame, don't want to race.

They are then either abandoned, killed or have to be rehomed.

Overbreeding for racing is a huge problem that pushes rehoming centres to the limit.

They are not cared for when racing - self regulated industry so most of the time no vet present to treat any injuries. Dogs made to race while injured or recovering. Often live in kennels in not good conditions, yes some live happily with families, many many don't. They are seen as commodities.

The tracks make for a hard race, really pushing the dog to its limit. They are often not rested enough.

All of this is before the dog retires. Dogs retire at the young age of around 2. Rescue centres are inundated with greyhound, ex-racers and those who never made it to the track. They are often overlooked because of misconceptions regarding the breed.

Greyhound rehoming centres do a great job, but it is merely a drop in the ocean to be honest.

I have no disagreements with the fact that greyhounds love to chase, it's what they're bred to do and there's no greater sight that a grey in full chase mode!! It's just all the other issues to do with the racing industry that needs sorting out - the one major change that is needed is stopping self regulation.

I could talk for hours on this subject - I feel really strongly about it. I would never ever attend a greyhound race because I couldn't give money to an industry that sees dogs as money making machines with no thought to their welfare.

[vicky2242]

I wish you would all just stop and tyhink a minute I am an ex girl groom who as worked with horses in many walks of life
Thr racing world looks after its animals (on the whole) like royality. I would rather be involed with racing than with some of the so call riding schools and trecking centers where the horses work impossiable long hours with out rest food or water and the staff are not treated much better.
Horses have very active minds and when a horse loves to race and jump it would hate being stopped doing it.

[Whassat]

I wish you would all just stop and tyhink a minute I am an ex girl groom who as worked with horses in many walks of life
Thr racing world looks after its animals (on the whole) like royality. I would rather be involed with racing than with some of the so call riding schools and trecking centers where the horses work impossiable long hours with out rest food or water and the staff are not treated much better.
Horses have very active minds and when a horse loves to race and jump it would hate being stopped doing it.

:clapping:

[CarerQuie]

I tend to avoid such races and things.xx

[angel1980]

I wish you would all just stop and tyhink a minute I am an ex girl groom who as worked with horses in many walks of life
Thr racing world looks after its animals (on the whole) like royality. I would rather be involed with racing than with some of the so call riding schools and trecking centers where the horses work impossiable long hours with out rest food or water and the staff are not treated much better.
Horses have very active minds and when a horse loves to race and jump it would hate being stopped doing it.

I'm not saying they should be stopped from racing, of course horses love it. But the Grand National is a very hard race, and dangerous for the horses and that's what I have a problem with, not horse racing in general.

[Chell]

Thr racing world looks after its animals (on the whole) like royality.

How is putting them into a race knowing so many horses have died 'looking after' the horse? I don't have an issue with horse racing but I have an issue with the cruelty of the Grand National, it clearly isn't safe for the horses. It isn't one or two that have died over the years, over the period stated in the first post it is nearly three per year.

[ruthie]

I always bet on the National, it has got safer (a good thing) though not as exciting over the years, surely if the horses didn't want to jump they would pull up at the first jump, and why do the loose horses keep running as well? Sd and ds girlfriend are riders and they go jumping and say the horses enjoy it!

[summer_sun]

I think there are worse animal sports such as bull ringing. Horses were built for this but bulls were not built for men to see how long they could ride them then kill them. My personal oppinion

[angel1980]

surely if the horses didn't want to jump they would pull up at the first jump, and why do the loose horses keep running as well?

Because they are trained to run and run, os it's all they know. The horses don't know that if jump is dangerous - that the other side of it is lower down and that they are likely to break their legs jumping it!

[Emsickle]

Because they are trained to run and run, os it's all they know. The horses don't know that if jump is dangerous - that the other side of it is lower down and that they are likely to break their legs jumping it!

Doesn't that go for the same when they are in the wild jumping ravines etc??

And if that is the case, why would my horse, when I was riding, be more than happy to jump over open ditches, over hedges, fences and other jumps - I certainly wasn't forcing him to.

Just playing devils advocate.

[angel1980]

Doesn't that go for the same when they are in the wild jumping ravines etc??

And if that is the case, why would my horse, when I was riding, be more than happy to jump over open ditches, over hedges, fences and other jumps - I certainly wasn't forcing him to.

Just playing devils advocate.

In the wild horses are herd animals, and prey animals, therefore they run with the herd, to avoid predation. They have a very high fight or flight instinct. So it is in their nature to run, and with domesticated horses this natural behaviour can be enhanced through training.

But these horses are not wild, they are domesticated and selectively bred - they are being bred now to be lighter-boned for speed on the flat racecourses - therefore they are not correctly built to be able to stand the challenging Grand National - hence the many injuries that occur after jumping and falling.

I think the whipping may have an affect on the horses running too in races!

And, also playing devils advocate here, some statistics - each year around 18,000 horses are bred by racing industries, yet only around 40% go on to race - are the remaining all happily rehomed? Or seen as disposable?

[Emsickle]

But they still have a form of their own natural instincts there.

I can see both sides of it, but I can also see it from a side where I used to own horses and ride them, on one day events, cross country, etc and when my horses did not want to do it anymore - they wouldn't. Simple as.


(I know many horses are re-homed as we've owned a couple, maybe not all, but a lot of them are.)

This is going to be a race where you are always going to have differing opinions on whether you agree on it or not, and people can argue and dispute the issue till the end of time - its being human. Just like whether its right to eat meat or not, whether its right to smack your child or raise your voice to them, or whether you should reason with your child and request they stop what they are doing. The human race is all about differences of opinions, which is what makes the world so interesting.

[angel1980]

The human race is all about differences of opinions, which is what makes the world so interesting.

Completely agree. It's good to have a debate!

:kisshands:

[Donela]

Nobody much thinks about what happens to them after they have left racing, that's what bothers me the most about racing.

I have two ex-racers (one of them is on my avatar). Most aren't so lucky, if I hadn't gone to collect my last one he had about a week left before he went to the meat factory.